Well do an ark of the covenant episode, just about that. Fr. Fr. Stephen De Young. Stephen: Yeah, but were not just playing the Nope card. Fr. This element of the eschatological Day of Atonement, that Azazel is finally defeatedits not just sending him back his sin while he continues to control the rest of the world out there, but hes done away with and disposed ofis, as we said Hebrews is going to be peppered all the way through here. Fr. YouTube Andrew Stephen Damick finish their three-part series on sacrifice. [Laughter] How many times have we said now: The killing is not ritualized in any way? And a very well-known biblical scholar and a very good biblical scholar, Simon Gathercole, who wrote the magisterial material on the Gospel of Thomas, for example, amongst many other great things, did a book a few years ago on atonement, trying to defend the particular atonement theory of penal substitutionary atonement. You get these atonement theories that are then theories of how it works from Gods end; how God does it. Fr. Fr. We welcome you. Andrew: Yeah, back to where it belongs. Fr. What do we need this for? Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Stephen: You mean butterflies arent curdled dairy products? Special request. The Judaism at the time of Christ was entirely centered on the temple, but the temple was destroyed in AD 70. There is this battle thats fought. Journal for The Study of The Pseudepigrapha, Online Heidelberg Journal of Religions on the Internet, Corrupting the Image 2: Hybrids, Hades, and the Mt Hermon Connection, Corrupting the Image vol 2: Hybrids, Hades, and the Mt Hermon Connection, Lamhfada: An Online Magazine of Myth and Story. Sorry, preview is currently unavailable. And you know, when an apostle interprets the Old Testament for you? That makes perfect sense. Fr. Fr. Could that be the real AI apocalypse that we should be worried about? Fr. This is before Christs birth, an awareness that were managing the problem, were dealing with the problem, but were not solving the problem. He is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog, as well as co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast. Fr. For 10% off your first month, use the link, http://www.faithfulcounseling.com/gospelsimplicityMost Christians. Stephen De Young and Fr. Right. Theres the effect that those sins have on not just the peopleand I think this is a great thing for us to mention especially here because our next couple of episodes are going to be on sacred geography, so were going to be talking about space in particulartheres an effect on the space, on the place. Fr. So Wycliffe, who translates the very earliest English Biblewell, I should say [Sigh] the very earliest complete English Bible, [Laughter] because, you know, tip of the hat to Alfred the Great for translating portions of the gospels into Old English. Fr. Stephen De Young, goes back to what I explained earlier: our understanding of the Judaism of Jesus day has been tinctured by Rabbinic Judaism, which we anachronistically assume reflects the tradition of the Pharisees. The second thing that happenedand I was explicitly taught this in the Protestant church I used to attendis that because the apostles were worshiping Jesus as the Messiah, they inferred He must be God because you cant worship a merely created being. Dr. Stephen De Young, Orthodox priest and an expert in ancient languages and a scholar of Biblical theology joins me for an interview about his newest book. Once again, I am delighted to announce that I was mistaken. Atonement - The Whole Counsel Blog The Bible refers to people who are (generically) tall, (generically) very tall, or (generically) of great stature. Stephen: This idea of, Hey, maybe the serpent in Eden was telling the truth. ", Nephilim: The Children of Lilith. Fr. The killing of this goat is not ritualized in any way. What can I say? Stephen: Yeah, and a solid 80% of kidding aside, the point you made about it being references to the Day of Atonement is again important. Andrew: Yes, right, so the idea is to take the sins of the people and get them out of the place where sin does not belong. Stephen: [Laughter] So that is what is done with the goat for Yahweh in the ritual. So we dont know how it was killed. Stephen De Young is an Orthodox priest. Fr. Fr. Fr. Fr. Stephen De Young is the author of God Is a Man of War and The Religion of the Apostles from Ancient Faith Publishing. Stephen: And these things that the evil one has wrought in the world are here in the world and need to be purged out, need to be purified, need to be atoned for in that sense, need to be removed, wiped away, blotted out. He purifies even them. Stephen: Right, and taken outside the camp. We dont have them in the original language or even in Greek. Fr. Stephen: Yes, well, his most well-known work. Like, no ones ever going to call it the Day of Purgation; it just doesnt have a ring to it. Dont trust me: read the Torah for yourself. And people may have heard of the mostly later tradition where theyd tie a rope to the person, to the high priest, in case he wasnt so pure and he dropped dead and they had to drag him out. Fr. Fr. So at the beginning thats Eden or paradise, but then everything outside of it, in comparison. Stephen: John 17, 18, and 19 also talks about this same idea, where Christthis is in the contextthis is part of the long reading on Holy Thursday eveningwhere Christ isthis is sometimes referred to as Christs high priestly prayer, appropriately enoughand Christ says in verses 18 and 19, As you sent me into the world, I have also sent them into the world, and for their sakes, I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth. And of course the truth in St. Johns gospel is Christ himself. Fr. So theres a whole bunch of things like that, where weve picked it up and we assume its there in the text, and it actually isnt when you go check. Fr. [Laughter], So, right, it has to do with when the ritual is described in Leviticus 16I know everyone knew that off the top of their heads, Fr. Fr. Fr. Youre not sacrificing a goat to Yahweh and then sacrificing another goat to Azazel. The blood of that goat is used to purify the sanctuary, to purify sacred space. I have two good friends who left the Orthodox church and now refer me to the Old Testament to clinch some version of the following argument: See, substitutionary atonement is real, so the Orthodox are actually heterodox when they deny this. Well folks, the Orthodox Church does teach substitutionary atonement, and if you dont believe me, read chapter 7 of The Religion of the Apostles. Maybe Fr. Orthodoxy, The Early Church, and Second Temple Judaism (w/ Fr. Stephen A dissertation submitted to the faculty of the School of Graduate Studies, Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion (2009). Fr. Fr. Andrew: All right. You could just call your band Mercy Seat and be like, Were a cover band, just like the title says.. So, actually, there is really important theology and teaching and doctrine thats in these three letters. Fr. Fr. There is literally no informationnow, this ritual, when you read Leviticus 16, theres a lot of detail here; weve already started with some of it, were going to have more detail as we go, but exactly whats to be done, there is no detail on how this goat is to be killed. Stephen: And its not just sort of chaos in the sense of disorder. Were about to talk now about how hes also the goat for Yahweh, but I just wanted to link these two things together actually from a very familiar bit of hymnography for Orthodox Christians, and thats from the doxology, whether the little doxology or the great doxology, if I remember correctly, this line is in both, where we sing, O Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father, who takest away the sin of the world; have mercy on us, O thou who takest away the sins of the world. Okay, so he takes away the sin of the world and the sins of the world. Yeah, theres more to it than that, of course. Email Newsletter, Terms of Use Privacy Policy Permissions Content Disclaimer, The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century, The Whole Counsel of God: An Introduction to Your Bible. Copyright 2005-2023 Ancient Faith Ministries, Inc.All Rights Reserved. Follow Stephen De Young and explore their bibliography from Amazon.com's Stephen De Young Author Page. Fr. Its also the Roman soldiers who are doing these Day of Atonement things in St. Matthews gospel. Stephen De Young finishes up the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 12, and starts on Chapter 13. But hes appropriately describing it to help you make that connection, because what are the gospels? Whats going on there? Fr. Stephen: So you see this same dynamic, the end of Luke: Luke ends with Emmaus, and then theyre in the Temple, and you pick up Acts and theyre not hanging around in the Temple for some reason, because St. Luke uses this imagery of, now, re-dedication of the Temple being the whole creation, and then, now that its been rededicated, the presence of God, the Holy Spirit, can come and dwell in sons, daughters, everyone, because of this purification that has happened. Fr. Stephen: Yeah, youre rubbing it into a bunch of people. And then, verse 17, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet, saying: He himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses. So Matthew is saying this is now fulfilled, the Suffering Servant passage of Isaiah, by Jesus healing ministry of sickness and demon-possession. Andrew: Yeah, which were actually about to show you how its the opposite. Fr. This goat, we dont know nothing. Epiphanes? [Laughter]. Andrew: Doesnt everyone? 1 John 2:1 talks about 1 John 2:1-2 is talking about the Day of Atonement. Andrew: Yeah, and thenand heres the part that everyones waiting forthe goats. [Laughter] No, theyve got to both be great. Were really dating ourselves with that reference! Fr. These werent special, magic goats. For we did not follow cleverly imagined stories when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. And then, so the Israelites are referred to as sheep sort of all through the Old Testament, and their leaders as shepherds, because theyre these sheep who are now set free from Egypt and brought out into this new pasture, all of that symbolism. Stephen: Who get what St. Matthew is doing here, and not only do they get what St. Matthew is doing here, but they talk about this in terms of atonement. And then the whole idea, not just in general terms but in its specifics, is picked up wholesale by St. John the Evangelist in the Johannine literature. The Very Rev. We dont know that there were any prayers said when it was killed. And, supporting that within the Bible, is also in Leviticus 17:7, which is the very next chapterand remember, the chapter-breaks werent there originally, so this is just a couple paragraphs later at the end of the ritual for the Day of Atonementtheres the commandments that the Israelites are not to continue worshiping the goat-spirits of the wilderness. So it seems to me that Azazel is most likely one of those. The poor goat. Stephen often asks is not What does this mean? but What does this do? And that is the most important question to ask when youre looking at ritual in Scripture, and then, of course, as ritual gets repeated and reused and all of this kind of stuff in the rest of Scripture and in the Church Fathers and the divine services and so forth, what does this actually do? Stephen: So the name of this angel is Yahweh-God. So Ill take the heat for that one. So where does that word? Stephen: Yeah, you dont get much worse than that. Thats why this is the day when everything has to be purified. Andrew: Yeah, probably. There are many economic and health benefits to a love relationship, yet if a man holds his wifes hand merely to experience those benefits, then we rightly say this is perverse. About Fr. Remember, the blood of this goat is used to purify sacred space. How does him healing diseases fulfill that? Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century So how could the Jews who did not convert to Christianity still practice their faith? Stephen: [Laughter] So, yeah, how granular do I want to go? Stephen: And the pivot-point, when we go from the end of St. Lukes gospel to the beginning of Acts, is the story he tells twice, and thats Christs ascension into heaven, which he tells at the end of his gospel, and then again at the beginning of Acts he narrates Christs ascension again. Andrew: Leave reviews and ratings, but, most importantly, share this show with a friend whom you know is going to love it. Stephen: Or even mercy-seat bands, if we want to be really old school. Fr. Stephen De Young begins the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 12. Fr. Stephen: The Antiochus was obviously a family name of the Seleucid dynasty, and they all took these titles. Stephen: Right, they have to be GOAT goats. Fr. Fr. Photius in Texas. Andrew: Yeah, which I love that verse, because if you ask people sometimes, Why did Jesus come to earth? theres all kinds of things they might say, some true and some not so much, but I love that: He comes to destroy the works of the devil. Andrew Stephen Damick and Ancient Faith Radio, Dr. Jeannie Constantinou and Ancient Faith Radio, Fr. On our next episode, were going to be starting a two-part series on sacred geography. [Laughter], Fr. It has this sort of importance as a major battle site. You know what Im saying? Do Orthodox Christians have any teaching on atonement? Its not anti-Semitic. Andrew: Got you. If youre a pastor and youre hearing confessions and you hear people struggle with all the disciplines of the Church that are intended, for instance, to purify us, to help us participate in purification, then theres a lot of discouragement that can come from that, and I think a lot of that comes because of a kind of reduced vision of what this is about. So thats what were going to do now. Andrew: [Laughter] That is true, but you cant have the parallel with Shark Week then. Genesis, 6:1-4. Fr. Andrew: It was. Youve got Jerusalem as an established city. Sorry, I will not get tired. Stephen De Young begins the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 12. [Laughter]. Stephen: Its important to cover that because reading a lot of things back into that word did not stop with the King James translators who were doing their best and sort of didnt know any better. This is Christ as being the goat for Yahweh. And then goats get associated with the Day of Atonement, which means theyre associated with sin, blood, death, Azazel. And St. John picks up pieces of this verse; elements of this idea form part of the structure of the book of 1 John. Stephen De Young begins the discussion of Romans 1. Theres not enough books in the world. So theyre choosing how to describe things and what details to include in order to convey this. Its everybodys sins. Stephen De Young from Lafayette, Louisiana. Stephen: Right, but that opens up Fortnite references. [Laughter] So instead, now, this goat, this completely corrupt goat, has to go outside the camp, the city, outside, back out into the bad place, and its going to Azazel. Stephen: Thats the crucial battle where the Judean army, led by the Maccabee brothers, defeated the Greek forces, at the Battle of Emmaus. Fr. Fr. YouTube One of them Im going to sacrifice, so that one we go and we lay hands on it to say: This is the sheep that were going to offer to God. I dont know. For anyone who leaves the Orthodox faith for Protestantism, this becomes an easy issue to take up and throw stones back at the Orthodox Church. Stephen: Weve talked about that theres kind of an anti-theosis that happens. Repeat after me. Yet as I began reading The Religion of the Apostles, my pride quickly turned to shame. Fr. Andrew: I mean, I love that word. He is also the author of The Whole Counsel Blog on . Fr. How the Devil Got His Hooves and Horns: The Origin of the Motif, "The Embarrassing and Alluring Biblical Giant," online at Bible and Interpretation (2 December 2015). Stephen: Yeah, it was Antiochus IV Epiphanes. And then as you go out to the holy place and then to where the Levites are dwellingthe Levites and the priests have to maintain this higher level of discipline and holinessand then you get to the Israelites, who have to do this even higher level than the nations. Okay, Im just trying to get better like Im doing a diet, a spiritual diet.. Stephen: In St. Matthews gospel in particular we see a lot of this connection to Christ as the scapegoat, and one of the places where we really see that isnow this requires you reading some outside the New Testament literaturebut the epistle of Barnabas gives a little bit more detailed description of how the Day of Atonement ritual was being performed, sort of in some of the small details that had accrued over time, in the first century AD. Fr. Stephen: Yeah, I hope youve got a pigeon, a lamb, and a young ox.. Fr. Just as St. Peter had, St. Paul saw the light of Gods glory, and heard a voice from heaven. So that works is brought in there, that hes doing the works of his father, the evil one. The books subtitle, preface, and publishers blurb on the back seem to over-promise what the book actually delivers. The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century Andrew: I feel like that could be on a t-shirt. And so then, logically enough, when you find this in its noun formthese same roots are used for both verbs and nouns and also for adjectiveswhen its a noun it means a cover or a covering. What are the actual, original words? Now the thing that has been done in part is now being done totally in full. Mike Schmitz), The Catechism in a Year (with Fr. So it was covering all of the commandments that had been broken, which was pretty much all of them. Were talking about atonement, and weve just taken a really whirlwind trip through the New Testament, just, I dont know, astonishingly beautiful stuff, looking at how Christ is both goats in the Day of Atonement ritual. And he isnt told, Dont call unclean what Ive created, or Dont call unclean what I tell you is clean, but: Do not call unclean what I have made clean..
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